Posted: 2010 Mar 08 10:27 Post subject: I'm screwed, you have any tips?
I just got to know; it's illegal to carry knives and guns around here in Sweden. Since a those things are pretty important to a survivor (a knife should be a part of any survivors EDC), I'm a bit concerned...
I could probably get ahold of a knife in case the SHTF, but what if it'd happen when I can't? What if I'm constricted to one building, without an extremely important tool?
So let me ask you, is there anything that can be used as a knife substitute that I can carry around without getting arrested? Something with similar properties? Or am I truly screwed? _________________ Knowledge does nothing if you don't use it.
Knives are handy tools to have around, but they are a very inefficient killer. To be truly deadly with one takes a lot of training and any knife fighter will tell you that in a fight, you are going to get cut. All these guys who you see carrying around bowie knives do it because it makes them look cool, not because they will ever actually use them.
When I was in Iraq, everyone had to have a big knife. I carried a big ol buck knife with a blade 10" long, slung upside down in the middle of my back. Why? Because I thought I was a salty dude and a killing machine.
Yeah.... mostly it just got in the way and the only time I used it was to cut the shoelaces off of Iraqi bodies so we could check the boots for stashed intel. Whoo hoo! Rambo stuff there....
99.99% of the time, the only use you will get out of a knife is to cut your food.
Since you cannot have a knife or a gun, figure out what you CAN have.
A walking stick? A Cane? A club of some kind (baseball bat, cricket bat etc)
A shillelagh was designed by the Irish after they were disarmed by the Brits. It's design hides a deadly weapon behind the innocuous facade of a walking stick. There are companies that make them out of Zytel and other man-made materials. Cold Steel, the blade company, makes one and I can tell you from personal experience (since I own one) that they are BRUTAL.
Aight. I'll think about the club things and all of that... but I'm also concerned about what I can use as a substitute for knifes when they are used as tools. This is my main issue, any idea about what to do about that? :/
PS. The irish blackthorn seems to be a pretty good CQC weapon, I should definently consider purchasing one. Also, some genealogy showed me that I've got some irish blood in me! _________________ Knowledge does nothing if you don't use it.
What are the rules on knives? How big a knife do you "need"? I am not sure why you are so focused on having a knife? If TSHTF, grab a knife from the nearest kitchen (cleavers are cooooollll)
Can you have a folding pocket knife? What about a box cutter? _________________ Preacher
Sorry if I'm being a bit "anal" about it, as you said in the chatbox, but from what I've heard on the forum, a knife is extremely important. Not as much as a weapon, but as a tool. _________________ Knowledge does nothing if you don't use it.
Joined: 06 Dec 2008 Posts: 292 Location: Cleveland area
Posted: 2010 Mar 09 11:42 Post subject:
I know you're looking for a CC weapon/tool but it may simply not be accessible. If you have to go to your police station and ask... You might only be allowed a 1 inch blade swiss army knife but they will know. Maybe there is some kind of permit or something. The worst they can do is say you can't have anything.
I fully admit that I have no confirmation or a way to confirm any of this information. But maybe it will give you a place to start.
Frankly this seems like a pain in the ass but if it's what you have to do...
Better then nothing though.
In a pinch - as far as blades and such: Go to the hardware store and buy some tools. It may not be legal to carry - unless you can justify it for your job or something. But again better then nothing. _________________ Normal people panic and screw up. If you want to survive you can't be normal.
OK, so being that im decently versed in knife combat, being that i train in FMA. And i know plenty of people who have been in 'knife fights' i wanted to interject before i read any further.
FIRST OFF! The CS blackthorn is a big clunky piece fo shit, it is not very well made, and unless you have gorilla hands, its hard to get your hand around, and my hands are pretty big, i own one.
There are rarely such things as 'knife fights' more like stabbings. I cant stand the 'your going to get cut' crap people throw around. Same with the 'if you get in a fight, your gong to the ground'. No disrespect intended. But, several times that ive ran scenario work with my training circles, ive been stabbed to 'death' before i could get a hand on my knife, or someone drops their knife, or wont open, or gets caught up in shit, or just gets forgotten. Its so unlikely that you will see your opponent pull his knife out, then have time to pull yours out. Then fight. its good to train for though. Makes you more flexible.
You should carry a 'tactical pen' as some cops i know put it.
The idea come from a tool called a kobutan. Which is just a section of wood or metal you use to manipulate your opponent. You can jab with it like a knife, and while it may not stab anybody, it will strike harder than just your fist.
Thats my idea for you. Dont break the law, but just get creative.
BTW, i recomend talking to a lawyer, not a cop. Lawyr actually know the law, more often than not, ive found too many cops who sadly, dont know shit about the penal code (what you can and cant have). _________________ Amateurs train until they get it right. Professionals train until they cant get it wrong.
"Give me a fast ship, for i intend to go into harms way." -John Paul Jones
Sorry if I'm being a bit "anal" about it, as you said in the chatbox, but from what I've heard on the forum, a knife is extremely important. Not as much as a weapon, but as a tool.
Hmmm, I'm not sure of current conditions or your situation. I used to travel between Helsinki, Finland and Stockholm to Malmo. I entered the country, going through Customs with a SAK (Super Tinker) or Leatherman Multitool and never had a problem. How old are you? Do you look like trouble? Sometimes (not saying you) people are their own worst enemies. Maybe you should start with a Local Knife Collecting Club. They will know more than just about anybody else because the have to keep up with laws that affect them and their collections. You do realize that Sweden is the Home Country of the Mora Knife one of the most talked about and recommended bargain knives in the world. Most Scandinavia Countries I've been too did not have a problem with knives per'say. they had a problem with One-Hand opening and Powered blades. A simple folder that is small or requires two hands may not flag the Authorities the way an automatic or large tactical folder will. You need to get off your ass and do the research. There is a large knife collectors association in Stockholm and your own libraries should have the data you need. Asking for advice from folks half a world away is a quick way to land your ass in jail. A knife is a tool that can also be an intimidating weapon. The more it appears as a weapon the more you lose the benefit of the doubt. Before you ask advice on getting stealthy carry options, find out EXACTLY what your legal options are. I think you may be to narrowly defining what is possible for you to carry. I'm a foreigner and there were adequate options for me. There are probably options for you.
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 425 Location: Middle of Nowhere
Posted: 2010 Mar 10 10:42 Post subject:
Preacher wrote:
I am not sure why you are so focused on having a knife? If TSHTF, grab a knife from the nearest kitchen (cleavers are cooooollll)
He said EDC. Having an EDC weapon is a very important issue. Goes back to the phrase that a pistol in the safe isn't going to help if shit goes down on the street.
Preacher wrote:
Knives are handy tools to have around, but they are a very inefficient killer. To be truly deadly with one takes a lot of training and any knife fighter will tell you that in a fight, you are going to get cut.
99.99% of the time, the only use you will get out of a knife is to cut your food.
A walking stick? A Cane?
I'll agree and disagree. They are very efficient at killing. If you know how to use them. They are if you don't sometimes (One dead that I went to high school with [lived long enough to say 'Call 911'] and two friends of the family who barely made it). While I've never been in a knife fight a lot of sparring ends with me not being cut. Then again majority of my opponents lose their fingers when trying to tangle with me using a reverse grip. Either that or require a lot of work putting their hands/arms together after I take pieces while dancing out of reach or at angles where they cannot strike effectively. Food for the though since I remember seeing a post around here mentioning cut resistant gloves. However if such a scenario presented itself where I would have to go blade to blade against an attacker I think I'd go with one of the following options:
1) Give the fucker lead poisoning after I empty magazine (one to drop him) after magazine (one just to make sure he's dead) into the fucker.
2) Allow one of my buddies to do it.
3) Show them just how fast I can run six miles before throwing up and keeling over.
Again I'll agree and disagree. 99.99% my knives are used for cutting, but more than just food.
Heh... Something we can agree 100% on. Biggest advocate of the walking stick for traveling where most weapons would land you in hot water. Mostly because they offer a long reach over most weapons. Excluding firearms, bow/crossbow/sling/etc, and spears. Only you said carrying of firearms isn't allowed and you'd be on the way to the looney bin if you tried walking around with a bow/crossbow/sling/etc. or spear. Toss in a can of pepper spray or a really fooking bright flashlight then you've one mean combination. Don't let the fact that they don't have an edge or point fool you. They can seriously hurt and kill. I know a gentleman who is living proof that a cane can break bones in a few swings (broken arm, one swing).
JOKER wrote:
I can't stand the 'You're going to get cut' crap people throw around. Same with the 'If you get in a fight, your going to the ground'.
But, several times that ive ran scenario work with my training circles, ive been stabbed to 'death' before i could get a hand on my knife, or someone drops their knife, or wont open, or gets caught up in shit, or just gets forgotten. Its so unlikely that you will see your opponent pull his knife out, then have time to pull yours out. Then fight. its good to train for though. Makes you more flexible.
You should carry a 'tactical pen' as some cops i know put it. The idea come from a tool called a kobutan. Which is just a section of wood or metal you use to manipulate your opponent. You can jab with it like a knife, and while it may not stab anybody, it will strike harder than just your fist.
Thats my idea for you. Dont break the law, but just get creative.
I've found too many cops who sadly, don't know shit about the penal code (what you can and cant have).
Neither can I. Gold star to whoever can tell me where the second quote came from.
I'm pretty sure your scenarios were pretty similar to mine. A few of them I'm fucked no matter what I've got.* I've only had one knife and one type of knife that didn't suffer from all but one of those problems. One was a CS Ti-Lite after I bent the pocket clip out and played with it for about a week. The other happens to be most push knives. CS' Urban Pal is the only one I couldn't get out in a hurry mostly because I can't carry it clipped to my belt. Although I do have push knives if I'm wearing a jacket and if someone comes at me with a big knife I'm fucked. Similar issues in the world of firearms.
*Situational awareness is about the only thing I can think of that would prevent me from being carved up like a Thanksgiving turkey.*
No matter what shape, form, or marketing name it is I just call it a Yawara stick or kubotan. I'm a fan of those and I'm not at the same time.
Agree and disagree.
Yep. Found that out a long time ago. Which is why I don't rely on a lot of people in LE/military for this kind of information.
In a pinch - as far as blades and such: Go to the hardware store and buy some tools. It may not be legal to carry - unless you can justify it for your job or something. But again better then nothing.
I was with my class and checked on a trial once. He had been swearing and threatening a guy at Systembolaget (the governmental monopoly for alcohol) and had been carrying a knife with him. As it turned out, he was a carpenter, and was freed from all charges because he needed it for his job. So yeah, you can justify it for your job.
sinnerman wrote:
Before you ask advice on getting stealthy carry options, find out EXACTLY what your legal options are. I think you may be to narrowly defining what is possible for you to carry. I'm a foreigner and there were adequate options for me. There are probably options for you.
Okey, I'll start asking around and getting information about this.
sinnerman wrote:
How old are you? Do you look like trouble?
Well, I'm a teenager, and I'm taller than most people ever get (1.90 meters, or something), so some people might find that intimidating. But I wouldn't say that I look like trouble. Most of the people I know would probably say that I've got an "innocent" expression, lol. _________________ Knowledge does nothing if you don't use it.
I can't stand the 'You're going to get cut' crap people throw around. Same with the 'If you get in a fight, your going to the ground'.
But, several times that ive ran scenario work with my training circles, ive been stabbed to 'death' before i could get a hand on my knife, or someone drops their knife, or wont open, or gets caught up in shit, or just gets forgotten. Its so unlikely that you will see your opponent pull his knife out, then have time to pull yours out. Then fight. its good to train for though. Makes you more flexible.
You should carry a 'tactical pen' as some cops i know put it. The idea come from a tool called a kobutan. Which is just a section of wood or metal you use to manipulate your opponent. You can jab with it like a knife, and while it may not stab anybody, it will strike harder than just your fist.
Thats my idea for you. Dont break the law, but just get creative.
I've found too many cops who sadly, don't know shit about the penal code (what you can and cant have).
Neither can I. Gold star to whoever can tell me where the second quote came from.
I'm pretty sure your scenarios were pretty similar to mine. A few of them I'm fucked no matter what I've got.* I've only had one knife and one type of knife that didn't suffer from all but one of those problems. One was a CS Ti-Lite after I bent the pocket clip out and played with it for about a week. The other happens to be most push knives. CS' Urban Pal is the only one I couldn't get out in a hurry mostly because I can't carry it clipped to my belt. Although I do have push knives if I'm wearing a jacket and if someone comes at me with a big knife I'm fucked. Similar issues in the world of firearms.
*Situational awareness is about the only thing I can think of that would prevent me from being carved up like a Thanksgiving turkey.*
No matter what shape, form, or marketing name it is I just call it a Yawara stick or kubotan. I'm a fan of those and I'm not at the same time.
Agree and disagree.
Yep. Found that out a long time ago. Which is why I don't rely on a lot of people in LE/military for this kind of information.
Im going to guess it was one of the Gracie faggots with one of ther epic marketing ads....
Dont get me wrong, Gracie family have done some great things....but, i cant stand the shit they put out there sometimes.
I was looking for a non CS push knife recently, right now im carrying a Ka-bar LDK in my boot laces. And if i had ever found a push knife, it would replace the LDK.
Recently i stumbled apon the HAK or Hide Away Knife, sadly i was 3 years to short, since the maker in a douche and started rppng people off. It is an excellent design, anyway.
Back on topic, thats where id carry a push knife, if it wasnt on my belt, is on my boot laces.
Another option ive seen is actually in your pocket, if the knife is small enough, you just need a clip that will hold on to your pocket and the knfe sheath, so you dont just pull out a sheathed knife.
Zed, the other thing you might consider is a improvised Sap.
One thng ive seen recently is this guy made a 5 or 6 inch lanyard and attached it to his keychain. when you grab the lanyard, your keys become a flail. Its not the best, its crude. But its better than nothing, and theres nothing illegal about keychain flair (at least not in good ol' 'Merica)
Also, consder martial arts lessons. Anything is better than nothing.
But we are talking about a tool for utlity, not nessecaly self defense. Im jstthrowing in ideas for you. Stay safe. _________________ Amateurs train until they get it right. Professionals train until they cant get it wrong.
"Give me a fast ship, for i intend to go into harms way." -John Paul Jones
As I've said before, I'm most concerned about having a knife for utility purposes. And about the martial arts stuff; I actually train Judo. It's really not about kicking and punching and damaging your opponent, as much as it's about immobilizing them. I'm pretty good with the throws where you use your legs a lot...
But I'd rather run then fight of course. The best kind of zombie is either a dead one, or one that's really far away. _________________ Knowledge does nothing if you don't use it.
If you train Judo, then your fine. I think Judo is probably one of the best martial arts you can study. It needs supplement, but its a very good SOLID martial art, i just wsh i trained in it. _________________ Amateurs train until they get it right. Professionals train until they cant get it wrong.
"Give me a fast ship, for i intend to go into harms way." -John Paul Jones
Surefire lights, its another self defense thing. But alot of there lights have 'crowns' for SD applications. Also, the bright lights are good for SD. _________________ Amateurs train until they get it right. Professionals train until they cant get it wrong.
"Give me a fast ship, for i intend to go into harms way." -John Paul Jones
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 425 Location: Middle of Nowhere
Posted: 2010 Mar 12 11:10 Post subject:
JOKER wrote:
Im going to guess it was one of the Gracie faggots with one of ther epic marketing ads....
Dont get me wrong, Gracie family have done some great things....but, i cant stand the shit they put out there sometimes.
I was looking for a non CS push knife recently, right now im carrying a Ka-bar LDK in my boot laces. And if i had ever found a push knife, it would replace the LDK.
Back on topic, thats where id carry a push knife, if it wasnt on my belt, is on my boot laces.
Another option ive seen is actually in your pocket, if the knife is small enough, you just need a clip that will hold on to your pocket and the knfe sheath, so you dont just pull out a sheathed knife.
Zed, the other thing you might consider is a improvised Sap.
One thng ive seen recently is this guy made a 5 or 6 inch lanyard and attached it to his keychain. when you grab the lanyard, your keys become a flail. Its not the best, its crude. But its better than nothing, and theres nothing illegal about keychain flair (at least not in good ol' 'Merica)
Also, consider martial arts lessons. Anything is better than nothing.
LAPD actually. Had to do with a study on how fights between suspects and officers ended. On the ground... Of course they're trained to go to the ground because what's the easiest way to handcuff someone?
Heh... They have said one thing we call can agree with...
[quote=Rorion Gracie]“More than one, get a gun.”[/quote]
The little MMA fad is what's got me pulling my hair out. People think what dominates in the octagon/ring is what's the best. The nice forgiving padding/canvas... Not the cold hard pavement usually littered with broken glass, gravel, trash, and sometimes used syringes. Yeah.... I'd like to see them go to the ground on that. Not to mention the possibility of my cousin Jose running up out of nowhere and soccer kicking your head across the parking lot while you're trying to arm bar me. Either that or uncle Victor popping you in the chest four times with a cheap pocket pistol while you're trying to grab my leg then break it. Then comes the cries of "Guns/Knives/Walking Sticks/Knuckle Dusters/Etc. are for pussies".... I call the gentlemen and non-gentlemen geniuses for being smart enough to play the game by their rules.
If you're looking for a good non-CS pushknife you'd better be ready to shell out some serious cash. The only non-expensive one I've seen is made by Blackhawk and I'll just sum it up with "I don't like it". Handle is too small and uncomfortable. Tip is more shaped like a screw driver, but the edges are sharp as hell. Two immedately come to mind and they are expensive as hell. I plan on purchasing them, but they won't be for carry. Ever since I was turned on to this type of knife collecting them is my new hobby. Not to mention I'd rather lose a $50-70 push knife than a $200-300 one. First off is the Merc Worx Seraphym. It's just beautiful. I just love how the blade is ground. Second is the blade craft military line. Expensive as hell and I'm not too keen on the blade style. However I dig how the blade is positioned in the hand when the knife is held.
Not a fan of boot laces. Pocket is a no go. If the clip on the sheath doesn't catch anything it comes out along with the knife.
Big fan of saps and black jacks... However if you're going in that direction I'd say screw the key flail. Not enough weight. I'd just buy a Monkey Nut. Either that purchase some cord, a large caliber musket ball (prefer lead to steel ball bearing), and learn how to tie a monkey fist knot.
Considering my martial art lessons... Lesson one:
Quote:
Martial- Suitable for war.
Quote:
And about the martial arts stuff; I actually train Judo. It's really not about kicking and punching and damaging your opponent, as much as it's about immobilizing them..
Neat little known fact about Judo. When it very first hit the scene there were strikes and other nasty stuff. What happened to it? I'll get to that in a few seconds...
JOKER wrote:
I think Judo is probably one of the best martial arts you can study. It needs supplement, but its a very good SOLID martial art, i just wsh i trained in it.
I'll disagree. I don't even consider it a martial art anymore. I consider it a sport. Same for TKD (buddy of mine trained in it, then moved to Hapkido) Why? A lot of the nasty stuff was dropped to make it more safe and sporting. With that dropped and that line of teaching being more common it ceased to be a martial art. Now if you're working under someone from the old school or incorporating some stuff from it (they didn't know before) then you've got a good solid martial art. Really wish I could learn a bit more formal stuff as far as martial arts go. Rather than spar and learn from buddies. However there is no way in hell I'm going to dress up in pajamas and deal with all the flowery fairy bullshit. If I'm going to train it will be like I fight. Which as if I were on the street.
Well, what i mean is that If i could chose, id want judo to be where my ground game came from, sport or not, a take down from judo on the street, would fuck someone up. And there ne-waza is so fast. Thats all i meant by it.
Thanks for the links. _________________ Amateurs train until they get it right. Professionals train until they cant get it wrong.
"Give me a fast ship, for i intend to go into harms way." -John Paul Jones
If all knives are illegal and you dont want to chance it this probably wont work. Im just throwing this out there thou. I just bought a Tool Logic Credit Card Companion today. Its basically the size of a credit card and besides a magnifing glass, a compas, and some other tools, there is also a small built in knife. Just a thought.
Zed, you said you're 1.9 m tall... If I'm not mistaken, that's over 6 ft. Plus you're a teenager. That already doesn't look good on you. If it ever came down to it, and you used the knife even in self-defence, you're done. I'm a 6ft teenage GIRL, and I almost got charged for punching a guy who was shorter than me cause he tried to get under my skirt... Just be careful.
Did you maybe think of carrying a flat head screwdriver. I imagine that if you used a file and sharpened the edge, you'd have a pretty nasty weapon that nobody would think twice about, as long as you could justify carrying it around. I'm not sure of your local laws, but it's deffinately something to be looked into...
If you're looking for something really inconspicous, you might consider making a disguised prison-style shank. You can make them pretty easilly to suit your own needs... Overall, I'm not 100%, but I say the sharpened screwdriver would be your best bet, because they're easy to explain. I mean, all it is is a screwdriver that you messed up, when you accidentally stripped a screw taking it out. You're just taking it to the hardware store to see if they have the same one. Your parents will kill you if they find out that you messed it up. Cover story AND weapon all in one.
But seriously look into the local laws. _________________
Mango wrote:
Such kickassery! This is definitly what I would like my stuff to be carried in ZA or not, this thing is epic! (As far as man purses go)
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Posted: 2010 Mar 08 10:27 Post subject: I'm screwed, you have any tips?
